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	<title>Comments on: I Never Thought I Say This</title>
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		<title>By: MikeW</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8202</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8202</guid>
		<description>Susan,
Some people do, or have done, what you mentioned, i.e., take out a mortgage or a home equity loan in order to get the tax deduction, but put the money into something else. The IRS considers this fraud, so if you ever get audited you&#039;ll have some explaining to do and you won&#039;t win. In Canada, interest on mortgages is NOT tax deductible. That is just one of many reasons that Canada is in a more stable real estate market that we are. These sorts of money games that the government plays encourages the average person, who barely knows how to balance their own checkbook, to engage in leverage. Small wonder we are in the mess we are in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan,<br />
Some people do, or have done, what you mentioned, i.e., take out a mortgage or a home equity loan in order to get the tax deduction, but put the money into something else. The IRS considers this fraud, so if you ever get audited you&#8217;ll have some explaining to do and you won&#8217;t win. In Canada, interest on mortgages is NOT tax deductible. That is just one of many reasons that Canada is in a more stable real estate market that we are. These sorts of money games that the government plays encourages the average person, who barely knows how to balance their own checkbook, to engage in leverage. Small wonder we are in the mess we are in.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8197</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8197</guid>
		<description>SGGroup,

You know, that&#039;s what I always said about Reagan&#039;s tax overhaul (I liked Reagan otherwise) is that now that the shelters are gone, they&#039;re gonna ramp the rates back up. Took longer than I expected though.

I was in the brokerage business back then and it absolutely destroyed some portfolios counting on the promised tax breaks.

Why the games? Eastern European countries show a lot of promise with flat taxes. (Lithuania 15% personal, 20% corporate - entire tax code: 53 pages!)

Roger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SGGroup,</p>
<p>You know, that&#8217;s what I always said about Reagan&#8217;s tax overhaul (I liked Reagan otherwise) is that now that the shelters are gone, they&#8217;re gonna ramp the rates back up. Took longer than I expected though.</p>
<p>I was in the brokerage business back then and it absolutely destroyed some portfolios counting on the promised tax breaks.</p>
<p>Why the games? Eastern European countries show a lot of promise with flat taxes. (Lithuania 15% personal, 20% corporate &#8211; entire tax code: 53 pages!)</p>
<p>Roger.</p>
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		<title>By: SGGroup</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8196</link>
		<dc:creator>SGGroup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8196</guid>
		<description>Agreed Roger... My Federal tax calculations do not show benefit of coming through the lower tax layers.  Then there&#039;s the deductions for State Income Taxes, interest etc. so actual Federal tax on $500,000 income would be less. Then again, the Alternative Minimum Tax knocks out these deductions.   

I could run it thru Turbo Tax to see what it would actually be, make adjustments, but there are other matters right now, although I intend to do so for planning purposes later.  

HOWEVER, the assumed taxes for Social Security (If &amp; When The Caps Are Erased) would be actual as well as assumed healthcare taxes. In the highest income taxe state, they&#039;re proposing a 11% income tax and the only allowed deduction is $1,000 per person. The gross Income is taxed. 

So maybe with benefit of the layers of lower Federal Income tax and allowance to deduct 1/2 of Social Security &amp; Health Care taxes, a person earning $500,000 per year will take home $100,000, but not likely more.

After everything, we&#039;re on the path to come home with 20 cents on the Dollar.  It&#039;s simply unsustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed Roger&#8230; My Federal tax calculations do not show benefit of coming through the lower tax layers.  Then there&#8217;s the deductions for State Income Taxes, interest etc. so actual Federal tax on $500,000 income would be less. Then again, the Alternative Minimum Tax knocks out these deductions.   </p>
<p>I could run it thru Turbo Tax to see what it would actually be, make adjustments, but there are other matters right now, although I intend to do so for planning purposes later.  </p>
<p>HOWEVER, the assumed taxes for Social Security (If &amp; When The Caps Are Erased) would be actual as well as assumed healthcare taxes. In the highest income taxe state, they&#8217;re proposing a 11% income tax and the only allowed deduction is $1,000 per person. The gross Income is taxed. </p>
<p>So maybe with benefit of the layers of lower Federal Income tax and allowance to deduct 1/2 of Social Security &amp; Health Care taxes, a person earning $500,000 per year will take home $100,000, but not likely more.</p>
<p>After everything, we&#8217;re on the path to come home with 20 cents on the Dollar.  It&#8217;s simply unsustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8194</guid>
		<description>SGGroup,

Your post is excellent, though I think your final calc of $50,000 net of $500,000 is a little low - the tax brackets do &quot;ramp&quot; up and there are some deductions and exemptions (though many are conveniently phased out when you make more).

What you then describe with a person scaling back is known to Ayn Rand&#039;s readers as &quot;going John Galt&quot;.

I&#039;m doing some of that myself.

Roger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SGGroup,</p>
<p>Your post is excellent, though I think your final calc of $50,000 net of $500,000 is a little low &#8211; the tax brackets do &#8220;ramp&#8221; up and there are some deductions and exemptions (though many are conveniently phased out when you make more).</p>
<p>What you then describe with a person scaling back is known to Ayn Rand&#8217;s readers as &#8220;going John Galt&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m doing some of that myself.</p>
<p>Roger.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8192</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8192</guid>
		<description>OK OK, one more post.  The following from the Aden Sisters last night re:  Dollar

Today the U.S. dollar index broke below its 65 week moving average. If it now stays below 80, it&#039;ll be a strong sign that a major, renewed dollar decline is indeed getting started. This will be further reinforced once the dollar index declines and stays below its June 2 low at .7840. For now, the dollar could still temporarily rebound upward, but this renewed weakness indicates that it may not amount to much. The currencies are looking better and the euro appears to be leading the way. It&#039;s at a four week high today and if it now stays above 1.4140, it&#039;ll be super strong. The same is true of the Australian dollar and Swiss franc above .7700 and .9050, respectively. Keep your positions. 

Also would appreciate it if one of you chart reader guru&#039;s would go to the aden site, http://www.adenforecast.com/ and click on their comment where they say &quot;A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words&quot; and share with us your take on what these charts tell us going forward.  Thanks much for anyone that takes the time to do so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK OK, one more post.  The following from the Aden Sisters last night re:  Dollar</p>
<p>Today the U.S. dollar index broke below its 65 week moving average. If it now stays below 80, it&#8217;ll be a strong sign that a major, renewed dollar decline is indeed getting started. This will be further reinforced once the dollar index declines and stays below its June 2 low at .7840. For now, the dollar could still temporarily rebound upward, but this renewed weakness indicates that it may not amount to much. The currencies are looking better and the euro appears to be leading the way. It&#8217;s at a four week high today and if it now stays above 1.4140, it&#8217;ll be super strong. The same is true of the Australian dollar and Swiss franc above .7700 and .9050, respectively. Keep your positions. </p>
<p>Also would appreciate it if one of you chart reader guru&#8217;s would go to the aden site, <a href="http://www.adenforecast.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.adenforecast.com/</a> and click on their comment where they say &#8220;A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words&#8221; and share with us your take on what these charts tell us going forward.  Thanks much for anyone that takes the time to do so!</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8191</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8191</guid>
		<description>Forgive me fellow bloggers for posting once again but I have been thinking about something and wondering where my logic is wrong so if you could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.  My logic or possibly &quot;mis logic&quot; is as follows and deals with DEBT:

Given our current tax programs and the assurance that we in the US will be taxed more not less, one of the only tax breaks we get now is in our mortgage.  So what is wrong with having a mortgage and even taking out a line of credit which has a tax benefit up to $100,000, IF you can if necessary pay it off.  In otherwords, why wouldn&#039;t you just hold the cash (and hopefully find safe places to invest it), and leave your debt run and use the interest you pay to offset your taxes?  If you pay off your mortgage/line of credit you do not get the tax break and I for one must tell you I DO NOT enjoy paying those taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me fellow bloggers for posting once again but I have been thinking about something and wondering where my logic is wrong so if you could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.  My logic or possibly &#8220;mis logic&#8221; is as follows and deals with DEBT:</p>
<p>Given our current tax programs and the assurance that we in the US will be taxed more not less, one of the only tax breaks we get now is in our mortgage.  So what is wrong with having a mortgage and even taking out a line of credit which has a tax benefit up to $100,000, IF you can if necessary pay it off.  In otherwords, why wouldn&#8217;t you just hold the cash (and hopefully find safe places to invest it), and leave your debt run and use the interest you pay to offset your taxes?  If you pay off your mortgage/line of credit you do not get the tax break and I for one must tell you I DO NOT enjoy paying those taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8190</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8190</guid>
		<description>China comment today has caused a stir per a guest on CNBC (don&#039;t laugh at me....I don&#039;t get Bloomberg so have no choice).  Anyhow he mentioned that this comment from China is even bigger than the jobs report today and should be focused on as it shows China is serious.  Below is an excerpt from a Reuter&#039;s report.  Maybe Peter will rethink our shorting the dollar again soon.

G8 sources told Reuters on Wednesday that Beijing had asked for a debate on proposals for a new global reserve currency at the G8 summit and the issue could be referred to briefly in the summit statement.

The news pushed down the dollar [$$EURUSD  1.4058    -0.0082  (-0.58%)   ], which is particularly sensitive to comments from China because bankers estimate the country holds perhaps 70 percent of its $1.95 trillion in official currency reserves in the U.S. currency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China comment today has caused a stir per a guest on CNBC (don&#8217;t laugh at me&#8230;.I don&#8217;t get Bloomberg so have no choice).  Anyhow he mentioned that this comment from China is even bigger than the jobs report today and should be focused on as it shows China is serious.  Below is an excerpt from a Reuter&#8217;s report.  Maybe Peter will rethink our shorting the dollar again soon.</p>
<p>G8 sources told Reuters on Wednesday that Beijing had asked for a debate on proposals for a new global reserve currency at the G8 summit and the issue could be referred to briefly in the summit statement.</p>
<p>The news pushed down the dollar [$$EURUSD  1.4058    -0.0082  (-0.58%)   ], which is particularly sensitive to comments from China because bankers estimate the country holds perhaps 70 percent of its $1.95 trillion in official currency reserves in the U.S. currency.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8185</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8185</guid>
		<description>Writing your Congress - easy way to do so:  For those of you who decide to write your Congress as SG Group suggested we do so, below is information that should make it easy to do.  Hope this information is helpful.   susan    Ps....I am going to post this on a few other of our blogs to make sure this info gets out

To use Congress.org - after you&#039;ve logged on go to Find Your Officials (top right)-click then go to Write Your Officials (Center) and directly underneath is a small Federal and State. Click on each, type your message and send.  There is also a section where you can have a hard copy hand delivered for a price.  This is the easiest way to send to all of them and you&#039;ll get a confirming email back that it was received.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Writing your Congress &#8211; easy way to do so:  For those of you who decide to write your Congress as SG Group suggested we do so, below is information that should make it easy to do.  Hope this information is helpful.   susan    Ps&#8230;.I am going to post this on a few other of our blogs to make sure this info gets out</p>
<p>To use Congress.org &#8211; after you&#8217;ve logged on go to Find Your Officials (top right)-click then go to Write Your Officials (Center) and directly underneath is a small Federal and State. Click on each, type your message and send.  There is also a section where you can have a hard copy hand delivered for a price.  This is the easiest way to send to all of them and you&#8217;ll get a confirming email back that it was received.</p>
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		<title>By: Starquestor</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8182</link>
		<dc:creator>Starquestor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8182</guid>
		<description>MY QUESTION TO THE WHITE HOUSE VIA &#039;E-MAIL&#039;

How many hits of Crack Cocaine and Marijuanna does it take before you stammer and stutter requiring a teleprompter?  

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1739</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MY QUESTION TO THE WHITE HOUSE VIA &#8216;E-MAIL&#8217;</p>
<p>How many hits of Crack Cocaine and Marijuanna does it take before you stammer and stutter requiring a teleprompter?  </p>
<p><a href="http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1739" rel="nofollow">http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1739</a></p>
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		<title>By: Starquestor</title>
		<link>http://grandich.agoracom.com/2009/07/i-never-thought-i-say-this/comment-page-1/#comment-8180</link>
		<dc:creator>Starquestor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grandich.agoracom.com/?p=2805#comment-8180</guid>
		<description>But the middle class can&#039;t escape this either because there&#039;s not that many wealthy people to milk and they&#039;ll disappear soon enough. Federal Government revenues have imploded 35% and in some states more than 50%.  They&#039;ll be lucky if it stabilizes.  

Then they&#039;re still adding big ticket items to the shopping cart thinking it can all be paid or charged. They have no solid figures of how much it will all cost including these crazy things that they&#039;re planning to do.  So it&#039;s unlikely the middle class will escape.  The lower income classes have no income to tax, and their ranks will be swelling. 

When the charge card comes up DECLINED, which is just starting to happen, that&#039;s when reality sets in - higher interest rates, in turn declining business activity and bigger government outlays.  If we&#039;re lucky it will turn into hyperinflation, the government gets destroyed, the poor get trampled and it was all for naught. Maybe it will turn out to be a lesson well learned.  Just some more patience and there could be a happy ending to it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the middle class can&#8217;t escape this either because there&#8217;s not that many wealthy people to milk and they&#8217;ll disappear soon enough. Federal Government revenues have imploded 35% and in some states more than 50%.  They&#8217;ll be lucky if it stabilizes.  </p>
<p>Then they&#8217;re still adding big ticket items to the shopping cart thinking it can all be paid or charged. They have no solid figures of how much it will all cost including these crazy things that they&#8217;re planning to do.  So it&#8217;s unlikely the middle class will escape.  The lower income classes have no income to tax, and their ranks will be swelling. </p>
<p>When the charge card comes up DECLINED, which is just starting to happen, that&#8217;s when reality sets in &#8211; higher interest rates, in turn declining business activity and bigger government outlays.  If we&#8217;re lucky it will turn into hyperinflation, the government gets destroyed, the poor get trampled and it was all for naught. Maybe it will turn out to be a lesson well learned.  Just some more patience and there could be a happy ending to it all.</p>
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